Episode 51
Jon Reiner – Speaking Expert & Pastor
About BizCast Greater La Crosse
We bring you news from the business community. From startups to experienced problem solvers, you’ll get in-depth insight on the challenges and opportunities of doing business in Greater La Crosse. Our show is a collaboration between WIZMNews.com and BizNews Greater La Crosse ( GreaterLaCrosse.media ).
Summary
Oh look, someone is teaching public speaking — a lot of people’s No. 1 worst fear. But Jon Reiner isn’t just a public speaking coach, he’s also a pastor, and wears both hats proudly. On Sundays, you may listen to him at First Free Church in Onalaska. Other days, he’s traveling the world, teaching others how to create a story around their product. Here, he talks of how a pastor became a sought-after public speaking coach and previews his event May 23-24 at The Charmant to share his gift with the Greater La Crosse area. We also discuss Reiner’s technique of helping people gain confidence to speak publicly, and how to tell a story.
Full Transcript [generated by AI]
[00:00:00] Jon Reiner: how
[00:00:00] Jon Reiner: do I coach people into recognizing the feelings of their audience? What matters to them? What are their pain points and how does your product or your service help meet that? And that is what opens up a lot of people’s eyes.
[00:00:13] Vicki Markussen: Welcome to BizCast, Greater La Crosse, a weekly podcast from BizNews. We bring you news from the business community. I am your host and founder, Vicki Markussen, and joining me today is John Reiner. He is a pastor and public speaker coach, which is not a usual job.
[00:00:31] Vicki Markussen: combination. It’s not. No, it’s
[00:00:33] Jon Reiner: not.
[00:00:34] Vicki Markussen: But I love it. Which
[00:00:35] Jon Reiner: came first? The pastor. Pastor definitely came first. Yeah, I’ve been in some form of ministry or pastoral position for 20 years. So that one definitely came first and opened up opportunities in other places.
[00:00:47] Vicki Markussen: And obviously being a pastor, you have to have speaking skills.
[00:00:50] Vicki Markussen: You
[00:00:50] Jon Reiner: do. I think it’s one of those things that you might take for granted, even in ministry, how much you use it. and then realizing how much it’s not used or maybe not something that’s often upskilled in or learned outside of the ministry world, you just do it because you’re always doing it.
[00:01:06] Vicki Markussen: Yes. And I will say, it’s interesting because a lot of guests that I have, a lot of what they do is the pastoral audience, members, parishioners, whatever you want to call them, appreciate a strong speaker.
[00:01:24] Vicki Markussen: I would like to think so. Yes. However, I’m guessing you’re going to school and that’s not quite the case. The main emphasis.
[00:01:31] Jon Reiner: No, they, you have classes on how to teach or preach, how to put something together, how to craft a presentation, but then it’s basically on you. Yeah. So you could have some people who they go through four years, six years, eight years of college, seminary.
[00:01:44] Jon Reiner: They learn a lot of information, but it’s never translated into how to use your tone. How do you get comfortable in front of people? How do you engage your audience? So I think some people just learn along the way. Some people emphasize it more in their own personal development, and some people don’t.
[00:02:00] Vicki Markussen: Yeah. Yeah. So let’s talk your path before we get into technique, right? So where’d you grow up?
[00:02:07] Jon Reiner: Grew up in Madison, Wisconsin. Okay. So two hours south of here in La Crosse. Loved it. Family was there. Extended family was there. My wife’s family was there. So I spent, I’ve been up in La Crosse now for 10 years.
[00:02:19] Jon Reiner: Everything else was Madison. And how did you get here? I was doing, like I said, ministry jobs down in Madison. And then, for about a year and a half, I took a step away from full time ministry. And I was managing health clubs, working for a health club chain down in Madison. Shout out to the Princeton club.
[00:02:38] Jon Reiner: And I love the family. I love the businesses and it was just something different. And so I was managing health clubs, two of them at the time. And my phone goes off and it says Shane Holden. Shout out to Shane. He’s a senior pastor at First Free. And he said, Hey, John, what are you doing? Cause he used, he came from Madison as well.
[00:02:55] Jon Reiner: He was a church planner in Madison. And he basically said, there’s this church that’s growing and growing, and we could use. What are you doing nowadays? Are you interested? And so that was 2014. My wife and I moved up here and we’ve been here since.
[00:03:09] Vicki Markussen: And I do want to give a shout out to First Free because they’re the ones who brought you here.
[00:03:13] Vicki Markussen: So that is not your standard church. It’s a very large church. And so to tie this into the topic, how did you see that honing your speaking skills, or were you already dialing in on that in other ways that you were serving? I was speaking
[00:03:28] Jon Reiner: before because I was like like we already said, it’s a part of ministries that you’re teaching and speaking.
[00:03:32] Jon Reiner: So I was doing it before. What happened with First Free is when I came up here, it was a larger church than I was used to speaking at. So absolutely. And at first there was a tendency to one kind of just go back to the basics. So what? I remember I made a joke about it. We still make a joke about it. I would go up there to speak and have 30 some pages of every single word written out.
[00:03:53] Jon Reiner: Even the first line, hello, my name is John Reiner, as if I would forget that. I would just write everything out and I would treat it more like a script and I would try to make it come alive, but it was much more like a script. And there is that thing. I don’t know how much it translates to other industries, but there’s that thing where you you want to fit in, you want to match.
[00:04:10] Jon Reiner: the current DNA and expression. And so I always saw Shane as a very gifted speaker, a very talented teacher. And I grew up in Madison having gone to his churches. And so there was that like, Oh man, I wonder if one day I could do what he does the way that he does it. And so there was at first that temptation of, I think I need to be like.
[00:04:32] Jon Reiner: And so I think this is what they like. This is what they’re used to. I need to be like that expression. And since then it’s I’ve come out of that mold and realized I have my own expression that I want to give and my own expression to teaching and speaking. And so first free is.
[00:04:45] Jon Reiner: definitely allowed me the space to become my own presenter. And so we have a teaching team now and every single person is somewhat different. And I definitely gravitate towards the storytelling aspect. And so I don’t go up there with notes anymore. I don’t have any notes when I go up there and I always start with a story.
[00:05:03] Jon Reiner: And that’s the way that I try to engage the messages. The audience is let’s dive into the story and find the meaning from it. And so First Free helped me in that way, where I had the environment to blossom, to expand my own expression, to not feel like I had to fit a mold or someone else’s expression. I could be my own.
[00:05:22] Jon Reiner: And so First Free definitely was always encouraging in that way.
[00:05:26] Vicki Markussen: So how did the public speaking part come about as a standalone business?
[00:05:31] Jon Reiner: Yeah, it was a, it’s been a process for the last couple of years. And part of it just came from, I love what I do at First Free and I love the opportunities that I have there.
[00:05:39] Jon Reiner: And so I don’t want to miss. I don’t speak out of line in that I love what I do, but maybe some of your listeners can relate to this. You and I just talked about it. There’s this resonance with it that sometimes there’s just a stirring that says, I love what I’m doing, but I wonder if there’s more. I wonder if there’s something else I could do.
[00:05:57] Jon Reiner: I wonder if there’s another expression. I don’t want to live with a sense of regret that I had an idea. I had something more in me. And I didn’t chase it down. There’s that internal stirring that says, I want to give this a try, right? Success, succeed or fail. I want to go for it. Then there’s also this sometimes a pressure, if you find yourself in a certain job or position that sometimes spoken or not, it’s this is all you can be.
[00:06:21] Jon Reiner: Your pigeonhole. Yeah. Yeah. And I’m not saying anyone necessarily said that, but there’s that feeling sometimes of if you step out and do something else, if you try something else, did you abandon the first thing or were you not committed to the first thing? Are you too divided from the first thing?
[00:06:35] Jon Reiner: Is your heart really not invested in it? And that was never the case. There’s just something I wanted to express creativity a little bit different. And so long story shorter I started doing an internal inventory. What comes naturally to me? Because, Vicki, I didn’t want to start a new trade. I didn’t want to go back and start learning how to code websites.
[00:06:54] Jon Reiner: That wasn’t me. I wasn’t looking for that much of a shift. I wanted to just do something else that was natural to me. That could be a creativity expression. It could be a supplemental income. It could be whatever. My own thing. And public speaking was the thing that came to me. I like it. I enjoy it. I really like seeing other people get better at it.
[00:07:14] Jon Reiner: I love helping people find their voice and I’d done it before in workshops and things, but never in a business side. So I started looking up things online, Googling it. One company kept coming up over and over again called the Moxie Institute out of California. And they basically, even though they weren’t hiring anyone, they weren’t looking to hire anyone.
[00:07:33] Jon Reiner: I had a zoom call that was set up with their CEO on their request. And she hired me on the spot and asked me if I could be one of their contracted master trainers. And so for about a year and a half, I’m able to go either do in person workshops for people, virtual workshops for companies or one on one coaching opportunities.
[00:07:50] Jon Reiner: And that’s been. They’re really quick trips, so it’s you leave on a Tuesday, after I’m done with work on a Tuesday at the church, I drive to Minneapolis, I fly out, I do a workshop Wednesday morning, I fly back Wednesday night, type thing. It’s just really quick. Just went to Arizona and did one.
[00:08:06] Jon Reiner: But it’s so fun. You’re around a new group of people and they’re all eager. They want to get better. They realize that if they could just improve this one skill in their life, it could open up so many opportunities for their career, for their resume, for opportunities for them in general. And so you see them come alive.
[00:08:22] Jon Reiner: And I, I love that maybe more than anything else is I love watching the people come alive and get better at something that they’re normally hesitant to do. And you see their confidence come out. So I’ve been doing that for about a year and a half with the Moxie Institute. And then. Locally, people started to reach out and say could you do it for me?
[00:08:38] Jon Reiner: Could you help me? Individual business people, companies in the area, who maybe it’s their sales team or their marketing team or their leadership team or their real estate team, whatever it is, I want our group to be better at speaking, communicating. And so I’m able to come in and do workshops for them.
[00:08:53] Jon Reiner: So I was able to do it on my own now. And so there’s, I love what I do at First Free. There’s opportunities with the Moxie Institute and then also with John Reiner LLC. I’m able to go and just do it on my own. And it’s been so life giving. to see people’s voice come out and see their confidence come out.
[00:09:10] Vicki Markussen: Yeah, because public speaking is up there in terms of fears, right?
[00:09:15] Jon Reiner: Glossophobia. Yeah, that’s what it’s called.
[00:09:18] Vicki Markussen: And so you’re going into a group that says, this is my worst fear. How do you get them over that?
[00:09:24] Jon Reiner: Goal setting. As weird as that might sound, I try to start all of my workshops with just asking them, what stands out to you about a really good presenter?
[00:09:33] Jon Reiner: So they’re able to mirror some of this. Oh, I watch Brene Brown. I watch Simon Sinek. I watch fill in the blank with your favorite speaker. I love what they do to this. I love how they can engage their audience. Blah, blah, blah. Okay, what stands out to you about a really bad speaker? Filler words. monotone, don’t know how to use their hands, body language.
[00:09:52] Jon Reiner: Okay, then I get it more personal. So we start with the broad. I get them thinking about, then we get a little bit closer in. What are your pain points? What stands out to you? And people can usually recognize that I’m not really good at showing emotion. I’m not really good at changing my tone, whatever it might be.
[00:10:08] Jon Reiner: I get really nervous. Okay. And then I asked them the stakes questions. What’s at stake here? If you were to improve this. What’s the new ceiling? What’s the new capacity for you? What’s the new potential for you if you could get better? And a lot of them could say, I can’t be more confident in my job. Maybe it means that promotion that I missed out on.
[00:10:27] Jon Reiner: Maybe it’s more clients I missed sales opportunities for because I just can’t communicate it. And then what’s the negative stakes if you don’t do this? If you don’t improve on it, what’s it going to mean? And I remember sitting down with a business owner. He owns his own real estate brokerage. And I said, here’s what I notice.
[00:10:44] Jon Reiner: Your face is everywhere on billboards. You’ve built a reputation as being really knowledgeable in your field. And maybe some of your listeners can resonate with this. You’re recognized. You have a reputation for being really good at what you do, but now you’re going to start opening your mouth. And so what people know about you.
[00:11:02] Jon Reiner: is your business acumen, your ability to lead, your reputation, the business that you’ve built. But now you’re going to start speaking and there’s going to be a disconnect between the credibility of your company and you as a leader. And I want to start leveling out those two levels so that your ability to speak matches the credibility and reputation that you have a business owner.
[00:11:24] Jon Reiner: And for them, that’s the sixth question. Oh my goodness, you’re right. I don’t want to be discredited. I don’t want my reputation to go down in business because my public speaking is bad. So when I start asking some of those stakes questions, what’s at stake? You start to open up the possibilities for people.
[00:11:41] Jon Reiner: And then, little by little, we start to expand. Introduce yourself. That’s a form of public speaking. I’ve had workshops, let’s play two trues and a lie. They have to public speak, they have to think on their toes, they have to improvise. So I start with the low hanging fruit, with the future in mind, and so many people are able to step out then and realize, okay, maybe I can do this.
[00:12:03] Jon Reiner: And I’m a big proponent of recognizing victories. So if I see even the smallest thing that someone’s doing right, I want to recognize it right away. Because we have these biological neuro loops. that are happening in our head. And most often it’s negatively based. So we just keep telling ourselves and reinforcing, I’m not good at this and I’m never going to be good at this.
[00:12:22] Jon Reiner: So if I can start bringing positive affirmation to people, it usually opens up their ability to try it more and more. Yes.
[00:12:28] Vicki Markussen: And it’s a little bit of imposter syndrome, right? Like I’m going to open my mouth and they’re going to see that I am not that person. And so then that feeds the fear as
[00:12:38] Jon Reiner: well. Yep. And that’s what holds them back.
[00:12:40] Jon Reiner: I’m not going to put myself up for that promotion. I’m never going to get it because I can’t speak as well as so and I’ll never get that job. I’ll never get that sale. I’ll never because I can’t do this as well as other people. And it just erodes our confidence.
[00:12:51] Vicki Markussen: The interesting thing from my journalism background is a lot of people obviously are nervous.
[00:12:56] Vicki Markussen: You put a camera in front of some people who are normally well spoken, and they just freeze. And They’re the fear is that imposter piece of they’re going to ask me questions that I can’t answer and a lot of it is just that confidence building of they don’t know the right answer. You are the, you’re the expert in their mind.
[00:13:16] Vicki Markussen: They may ask you questions, but you respond confidently because more than they do, or they wouldn’t be asking the
[00:13:21] Jon Reiner: questions. Yeah. Why are you here? Yes. I’ve asked people that. Why are you the one giving the presentation? It’s part of my job. Why is it a part of your job? Because it comes with my position.
[00:13:29] Jon Reiner: How’d you get that position? I applied for it. Did anyone else? Yes. You just keep Yes, but it’s you. Yeah. It was you. You’re the one in that position. You’re the one being asked. You got the job. And little by little, man, just people Building people’s confidence to be able to step in front.
[00:13:42] Jon Reiner: You’re right, a lot of people, it’s their biggest fear. More than death. Yes. That was Jerry Seinfeld’s joke. Yes. At a funeral, most people would rather be in the casket than given the eulogy. Yeah, it’s just true. But, I think little by little, you start chipping away at those insecurities and the fears by building confidence.
[00:13:57] Jon Reiner: Yeah. And people find their voice. Yeah.
[00:14:00] Vicki Markussen: And I think there’s a lot of truth to your comment of feeling pigeonholed. A lot of people say this is the only thing I can do, and not to keep pulling this in for whatever reason, but journalism. I have so many journalists who said, how did you get out of journalism?
[00:14:13] Vicki Markussen: That’s your only skill set. You went to school for broadcast journalism, nothing else. So how do you It’s on a piece of paper. Yes. I have that as my degree. That’s who you’re supposed to be now. Yes. And so So I’m guessing a lot of times you are, it sounds like you’re doing a lot of career coaching as well.
[00:14:31] Vicki Markussen: And so if they’re saying I got hired, let’s use your example. I got hired as a realtor. What do I know about public speaking? I just know about selling houses. How do you get them into that mindset that they can be more? Yeah,
[00:14:42] Jon Reiner: I think. Even just, okay, let’s use that example. Do you ever talk to people? Yeah, but I’m only talking to one person at a time.
[00:14:49] Jon Reiner: I had someone come in who was interested in coaching. They said I don’t know that I have experience in public speaking. I just talked to one person at a time. Okay. That’s still public. You’re still communicating. And so I try to bring it into their world of, I’m not necessarily trying to train you to give the next TED Talk.
[00:15:04] Jon Reiner: I’m trying to increase your skill set so that you can be. Better at whatever occupation and industry you are. So there’s financial advisors, there’s real estate agents, there’s tech industry leaders, there’s I want to lead a Bible study at my, whatever it is, but I have information that I want to give, or a career that I have, and the one thing that’s holding me back is my ability to talk to people.
[00:15:26] Jon Reiner: And let’s use that real estate agent example. I just asked them, how do you approach your client? How do you approach the people who are coming in? How do you do that? And one of my technique things is I always start with the audience first. As presenters, we think, okay, I’m going to give a sales pitch, or I’m going to give a briefing, or I’m going to talk to the executives, or I’m going to whatever.
[00:15:44] Jon Reiner: I have to give information. What’s the information I’m going to give? I think it’s the wrong approach. Who am I talking to? Too often as presenters or salespeople or marketing, whatever, is we give the presentation we want to give, not the one they need to hear. And so I start with the audience. In the real estate example, why are they coming to you, is a question that I’ve asked before.
[00:16:01] Jon Reiner: Because of our reputation for closings. No, that’s not the primary reason they’re coming to you. Because of our high integrity as a company. No. Because our CEO is No. The primary reason they’re coming is because they want to buy or sell a property. It’s a pain point. So how do you approach them?
[00:16:16] Jon Reiner: What matters to them? They’re they’re a retired couple who want to be closer to family. That’s more of a heart issue, isn’t it? Than just buying a house. How do I talk to them about their life? And how do I relate to them with my tone? How I want them to feel? Now it’s the information that I want to give them.
[00:16:33] Jon Reiner: It’s the information enforcing the feeling I want them to have. in order to do the thing that they came to me to do in the first place. And it doesn’t matter if you’re a teacher, a real estate agent, a C suite executive, it doesn’t matter to me. If you’re talking to anyone, your communication skills have to improve to be able to communicate to them.
[00:16:53] Vicki Markussen: Yeah, and you call it storytelling. Yeah.
[00:16:56] Jon Reiner: Why? A lot of it is storytelling. Some of it is just mechanics of public speaking. How well do I pause? Do I ramble on? Do I use filler words? Those are the mechanics. The type of expressions that we use, nowadays, more and more, it’s storytelling. I see it in marketing.
[00:17:12] Jon Reiner: I see it in commercials. I use it all the time in my workshops, right? My favorite example is Lincoln Motors, to be honest with you. I don’t know if I can just throw out names. Lincoln Motors. You go back a couple decades ago, Lincoln Motors, their commercial would be, here’s our car, here’s the transmission, here’s the miles per gallon, here’s the interior, look at all the knobs on the counter.
[00:17:30] Jon Reiner: Nowadays it’s, all right,
[00:17:32] Vicki Markussen: all right. Yeah. Everybody knows that. Are
[00:17:34] Jon Reiner: you stressed? Yeah. Is your family stressed? So what’s the slogan? You need a sanctuary. If I closed my eyes, I would learn nothing about that Lincoln car whatsoever. But they’re telling a story. They’re telling a story to the overworked, overstressed Western society.
[00:17:50] Jon Reiner: And what you need is a quiet place. You need somewhere that is your sanctuary. Someplace that’s just you. Laundry detergent. They don’t tell me what’s in the laundry detergent. Never tell me what’s in the laundry detergent. But they’ll show me kids who are playing soccer, or a dog that’s in the mud.
[00:18:05] Jon Reiner: It’s a story. And I think more and more, our minds In the business world, in the ministry world, in relationship worlds, we communicate through stories. And that is becoming more and more the direction that I think even businesses are going in. How do we tell better stories about what we’re doing rather than just give people a bunch of information?
[00:18:25] Jon Reiner: Yeah. So that’s what it is. I help people craft stories for their businesses, help people craft stories with their presentations. Sometimes it’s a Sometimes it’s just recognizing what are the felt needs and the needs of my audience and how do I communicate in a way that captures them. It’s
[00:18:40] Vicki Markussen: funny you say that because it’s, sometimes it’s about the headline, sometimes it’s about the title that you have, right?
[00:18:48] Vicki Markussen: So as a for example I remember pushing back against a marketing company because they wanted to turn a name of a program that had a feel to it into functionality, right? I hear that feeling name and I don’t know what it So the same thing could be said about job titles, right? So have you broached that topic in terms you almost start to get into marketing, right?
[00:19:12] Vicki Markussen: To say, what’s the story behind this product you’re trying to sell? Have you thought about renaming it to something more feeling, or do you get into that
[00:19:19] Jon Reiner: realm? I talk about the feeling aspect of audiences, so I do talk about that. And the reason I do that is even science, studies are telling us that an adult, I was just reading that, an adult is going to make 34, 000 decisions a day.
[00:19:33] Jon Reiner: That is a lot of decisions, right? Subconscious, consciously, 34, 000 decisions a day. Another study that came out from Psychology Today, I think it was, over 90 percent of the decisions that we’re going to make are based on feelings, not information. That should tell us something, right? Yeah. We have a phrase for it.
[00:19:50] Jon Reiner: I just went with my gut. Yeah. I just had a, I didn’t feel right. Yeah. It felt There’s so much importance in information. Yeah. But I think people make a lot of decisions based on feeling. And that is a direction that I try to encourage whoever I’m coaching or whatever company I’m in is what do I want my audience to do?
[00:20:11] Jon Reiner: So it’s just learning theory, right? Do right, feel right, know so what do I want my audience to do? How do I want my audience to feel in order to do the thing I want them to do? What do they need to know to feel the way I want them to feel to do the thing I want them to do? Yeah. And so really at the heart of it is feeling.
[00:20:28] Jon Reiner: And so that’s how I present to them. If they change job titles or headlines, whatever, that’s up to them. But what I’m trying to help them do is engage with the fact that your audiences, your prospective clients, your current clients, whatever it might be, the people looking at your website, are making most of their decisions based on feelings.
[00:20:45] Jon Reiner: Are you capturing that, or are you only giving them information?
[00:20:49] Vicki Markussen: Which is interesting, because your public speaking starts to become a sales pitch, right? Rather than approach it based off of information, what is that feeling? How do you tell the story of your product being a solution? Granted, I get it.
[00:21:04] Vicki Markussen: It’s not, I can see sales people coming into your program going, Oh, that will help me with sales. Sales, but everyone has to present at some point on boring information. And so when you do have a person who has to present a bunch of graphs, how do you get them into that mindset of telling the story behind
[00:21:21] Jon Reiner: the data?
[00:21:22] Jon Reiner: So function is fine. What is the function? But why are you giving that presentation? You’re probably doing it to an audience because you want to implement something for the next quarter or you did R and D and you’re trying to figure out. how that’s going to impact the product that you have. There’s usually some end game, right?
[00:21:39] Jon Reiner: And so if I’m trying to take anyone, any audience from where they are now to the end game, I have to figure out, is it going to be high information, high feeling, high, whatever. And if science is telling me that they’re going to make their decisions based off feeling, then. It’s not lacking information, I become more strategic with my information.
[00:21:58] Jon Reiner: So rather than overloading them with a bunch of information that goes in one ear and out the next, and then they walk away without any idea what I’m supposed to do, I give them the right amount of information to capture their audience’s feelings. So then they can lead them. To do the thing I want them to do.
[00:22:13] Jon Reiner: And I always give this caveat, I’m not talking about manipulation, right? Because that can sometimes be the thing. Oh, so we’re just manipulating people? No. If I believe in the product, I don’t think it’s manipulation. If I’m just a shady salesperson or I’m coaching a shady sales team that’s gonna, sell you a product that they know is.
[00:22:29] Jon Reiner: Garbage and not going to help people. That’s manipulation. I’m just talking about how do I coach people into recognizing the feelings of their audience? What matters to them? What are their pain points and how does your product or your service help meet that? And that is what opens up a lot of people’s eyes.
[00:22:47] Jon Reiner: I never even thought about how I want my audience to feel. Then we might be missing opportunities to get that client, make that sale, introduce that product, whatever, because I didn’t capture them where they’re actually making their decisions. Yeah.
[00:23:01] Vicki Markussen: If that makes sense. No, it makes total sense. Yeah. So my question for you is, so I can see why you’re successful And so let me go to that piece.
[00:23:09] Vicki Markussen: So you and I talked about it as the warm up to the conversation, which is when you realize this was a talent that you had, there’s a void out there. And so any thoughts as to if there’s a void, there’s a great need, right? And so people are searching for you. You’re going to grow. True. How are you going to keep that balance?
[00:23:31] Vicki Markussen: Have you thought about that? That’s a
[00:23:32] Jon Reiner: great question. Yeah. It is a great question. I’m not sure I have a set answer on it. This was already a slow process for me to believe I had something to give or an opportunity that I could step out in. And you’re absolutely right. There are people who are reaching out.
[00:23:46] Jon Reiner: There are people who are interested. Maybe there’ll be more after this episode. I love it. I love that aspect. I love the opportunity that I have. The balancing act is, that is a very real question. And so I try my best to balance life, family life, church life, and independent business life as best as I can and offer the services that I have.
[00:24:04] Jon Reiner: But that’s a great question that has yet to be somewhat determined of what does that look like? And. Like you said, there’s a void in this area. I tried to do a little bit of research to figure out, is there anyone else who offers this specific thing? I couldn’t find anything. Which is exciting when you’re trying to offer a service that, just isn’t there.
[00:24:23] Jon Reiner: And I do want to bring help in this area, assistance in this area, to the business leaders, the individuals of La Crosse, Greater La Crosse area. I do want to do that. I would love to be their go to person. Yeah. And then, down the road, figuring out that balancing act.
[00:24:38] Vicki Markussen: And it’s a balance, too, of this is me interjecting here.
[00:24:42] Vicki Markussen: So if you are serving locally, it’s easier to balance because you don’t have the travel time factored in. There’s obviously a need there. And we’ll obviously talk about what you’re doing to help locally. But the piece that I think is interesting, so you’re entering What is a void. Sure. And you say, similar to everybody else, okay, this is new for me.
[00:25:05] Vicki Markussen: How do you chart? How do you figure out what your value is, right?
[00:25:11] Jon Reiner: Yeah, that’s been very, that’s another difficult thing. And I wonder if part of it is just that ministry mindset, which is you just do things for free.
[00:25:17] Vicki Markussen: Yes. Oh, trust me, I’ve worked in non profit for 25 the non profit
[00:25:22] Jon Reiner: world into the profit world and you’re I don’t know, my goodness.
[00:25:24] Jon Reiner: That seems so
[00:25:25] Vicki Markussen: high. That’s a high number of
[00:25:26] Jon Reiner: people. Yes. So how have I navigated that? A couple ways. One is just trying to do as best as I can for market research. National market research. That is helpful to a sense because now that we have this internet age, the virtual age, there is the difference, like price gap, between what you can charge in Chicago versus La Crosse, so I still get that.
[00:25:49] Jon Reiner: But at the same time, you could hire your coach to virtually train you from anywhere in the world. So sometimes those prices are mixed. Yes. I’m not going to LA to pay LA prices. There is that globalization almost now that’s happening within the United States. Yeah. I can have a trainer from anywhere. So I tried to do some national averages.
[00:26:08] Jon Reiner: What’s a national average for what people charge? Whether it’s per hour, per day, per workshop. Those are across the board. So somewhat helpful, somewhat irritating. Then, I think some of my, the best assets that I’ve had has been asking local business leaders. People who are, have been so encouraging and influential in me stepping out in this and asking them, and some of them come from public speaking backgrounds or they host workshops, and I’ll ask them, what do I do here?
[00:26:35] Jon Reiner: This seems like a large amount. I remember the first time I went to someone, it was Misty Lown, Misty’s Dance Unlimited. I can’t speak highly enough of her because she’s been so encouraging in this whole process. And I remember she invited me one time to just come talk to one of her studio owners. They did a workshop, and it wasn’t even so much a practical skill set of public speaking.
[00:26:55] Jon Reiner: It was me coming in and talking about, can I be more than one thing? That was the topic, because some of them are balancing a bunch of things. Can I do that? I remember coming in and she just said, okay, so what do you charge? And I gave a number and she said, no, what do you mean no, that’s not enough.
[00:27:10] Jon Reiner: That’s
[00:27:10] Vicki Markussen: what I love about Misty. Yes.
[00:27:12] Jon Reiner: What do you mean? And she goes, here’s the thing. I will pay you what you’re asking for plus a little bit more, but I want you to know that in X amount of time, two years. I expect you to be charging this amount. And I was like, More, obviously.
[00:27:22] Vicki Markussen: Oh,
[00:27:23] Jon Reiner: significantly more. And I was like, Are you serious?
[00:27:27] Jon Reiner: So the pricing thing has been difficult. And sometimes I think I get it right, sometimes I get it wrong. And sometimes it’s having to sit down and explain to people, okay, here’s the price point, here’s what you’re getting, this is what it means, this is what I think, this is how I think you’re going to develop in the process.
[00:27:43] Jon Reiner: And then I tell people every time, it is an investment. It is an investment. I get that, it’s an investment. But hopefully what I’m able to do is cast a vision for what that investment is going to bring them in their life. But Vicki, my goodness, money is still a It’s still a difficult one. What do you charge?
[00:28:01] Jon Reiner: What do you do? Yeah.
[00:28:02] Vicki Markussen: Especially, and we all have been there, where you can feel this person putting a price out there, but their brain is just Oh, is that the right price point? And then you want to start going, Oh I can do less if you,
[00:28:13] Jon Reiner: yeah, modify, they could take this away. And yeah.
[00:28:16] Jon Reiner: So it’s been leaning a lot on mentors, ministry world, teaching in general. I’ve had years of experience in that. Yeah. The business world is still very much leaning on some mentors and helpers to, to lead me in that process. Yeah. Encourage and give insight. And so it’s been a difficult thing, but usually it’s about, here’s the value, here’s what you’re getting.
[00:28:36] Jon Reiner: What is it worth to you? Yeah. If you improve on this, if you don’t. Yes. Yeah. And so what’s been encouraging is I’ll hear some people who say, Oh, that’s just. The price that you’re charging, that’s, okay, that’s one sale for me, or that’s one client for me. And once they get that mentality, it’s if, okay, so for the cost of one client, or one sale, or one closing, I get this, and then that could help me for the rest of my life.
[00:28:58] Jon Reiner: Yeah. That’s worth it for me.
[00:29:00] Vicki Markussen: Yeah. And so a lot of your clients, have they been a company that hires you and then you go speak to their individuals? Or, like, why I ask is because you have a workshop coming up?
[00:29:12] Jon Reiner: I do, yes. Yes, at the Charmant. Most locally, most of what I’ve done out of the California Company Moxie Institute has been companies.
[00:29:20] Jon Reiner: They contact Moxie, Moxie hires me to go teach them as a company as a whole. Locally, it’s been more, it started with the one on one coaching clients. Okay. And now it has gone into two or three companies now who have said, would you come in and do a workshop for us? Okay. Locally it started more than one on one, and the workshops are starting to build.
[00:29:39] Jon Reiner: So it goes both ways. Those are the two surfaces, basically, one on one coaching and in person workshops
[00:29:44] Vicki Markussen: locally. So the workshop is an interesting way for the budget conscious to say, okay, this is a way for me to enter. And they’ll meet other colleagues of wanting, obviously not in the same industry potentially, but there’s a networking piece to it.
[00:29:59] Vicki Markussen: There is. But they also are somewhat cost sharing and it’s. So what does that workshop look like? And when is it? Yeah. So
[00:30:07] Jon Reiner: the workshop is May 23rd and 24th here in historic downtown La Crosse at the Charmant. So just a block away from here. And it looks like two days of me combining together almost all the services that I’ve offered otherwise into a very unique experience.
[00:30:23] Jon Reiner: Because rather than saying my company is going to pay for you to come teach on one of these topics and only to this company, it’s open to anyone. So I’m going to take the three main workshops that I offer, which is one of them is just the mechanics of public speaking. All of those little nitpicky issues that we’re so conscious of, filler words, breathing, nerves, tone, body language, all of that.
[00:30:46] Jon Reiner: We’re going to have a high level upskilling workshop on that. One on how do I create a presentation from original idea to delivering it. How do I piece it together, organize it so it’s concise, it’s powerful, it’s to the point, it’s audience centric, a high level workshop on that, and then one specifically on storytelling.
[00:31:06] Jon Reiner: So those are the three workshops. And then, in addition to that, you’re going to have group discussion times, exercise times, where you’re going to start low hanging fruit, where you introduce yourself. By the time of the two day thing is done, you’re giving a full presentation in front of a group. You’re getting that immediate feedback from myself and peers.
[00:31:24] Jon Reiner: So that’s not just I went to this national convention, we learned a bunch of stuff, and now hypothetically I’m supposed to apply it. It’s within two days, you’re learning concept, you’re discussing it. You’re actually applying it, you’re getting feedback. So you’re getting that whole loop, right?
[00:31:39] Jon Reiner: Information, feedback, discussion, rehearsal, all of it that you’re going to get. All the food’s provided by the Charmant. So all the lunches, breakfasts are from the Charmant. And then I’m hosting a two hour all inclusive happy hour networking social. The unique thing is you’re going to have people from all different industries.
[00:31:55] Jon Reiner: You never know. Maybe the person who is here as a real estate agent could come to your nonprofit benefit that’s happening over here, or this person might be able to benefit you. So trying to bring some of the different business industries together as well during that social, and then on top of all that, you’ll leave with six one on one sessions with me as a followup.
[00:32:15] Jon Reiner: So you have the two days of high level learning. Interactions, discussions, small groups, meals, happy hour, drinks around me, and then you’ll leave there and have six sessions one on one where we can start identifying your specific needs, skill sets. presentation sales pitches, whatever that you can use throughout the rest of 2024.
[00:32:33] Jon Reiner: So it’s two days plus a year of upscaling and professional development. And
[00:32:41] Vicki Markussen: it’s accountability too, right? So you didn’t just leave a conference in your notes. You can’t just go sitting on a desk somewhere. This is what are you doing to implement the things that you learned? The other intriguing thing about your workshop is I think about the companies that have paid you to come in and now they say, there’s a new person.
[00:32:59] Vicki Markussen: So your workshop is an opportunity to capture those one offs. to say, Hey, I have this workshop. Rather than coming back to the company, you come to the workshop and you’ll be up to speed with everybody else. And then you’re starting to bring people into La Crosse and that gets exciting from that perspective, too.
[00:33:14] Jon Reiner: So yeah, the unique element of that’s not just for one company, right? It is exclusive. So it’s a small number of people solely so that I can have that one on one training opportunity, feedback opportunity. I could host it for 200 people, but then you’re not going to get that same. Connection. Connection.
[00:33:29] Jon Reiner: Absolutely. So it’s smaller 15 spots total that it’s open to, and then you get that one on one attention plus the sessions afterwards. Yeah. Yeah. I’m excited. Yeah. I’m excited.
[00:33:39] Vicki Markussen: It’s an amazing opportunity for La Crosse as well. Yeah. So I have a common closer question. Oh. Yes. What makes you passionate?
[00:33:47] Vicki Markussen: about what you do. And so you do two different things. So you can answer that however you would like.
[00:33:51] Jon Reiner: So in the church world, in the ministry world what gives me passion is I see people find their value. I like that. I see them connecting to something beyond the mundane everyday. That there is life out there, that there’s beauty out there.
[00:34:06] Jon Reiner: And so the three phrases I’ve been using more and more with people when I meet with them or talk to them is that one life is beautiful and I want people to know that life truly is beautiful. This experience is beautiful. It’s filled with ups and downs. Yes, but life is beautiful. Two moments matter.
[00:34:22] Jon Reiner: We’re so easy to skip over it. I just want to get to the next moment in my life. I just want to get to the next thing, especially when it’s a difficult moment. We want to skip those difficult ones because I want this to be part of my history, not my present. But life is beautiful, moments matter, and number three, when I sink into those moments.
[00:34:41] Jon Reiner: I find the divine. I find God when I sink into those moments. I think so often, I talk to people and they think, I went through this situation in my life. God must not have been there because it was difficult, right? And what I’m saying, what I’m hearing them say is, God didn’t show up the way that I needed him to.
[00:34:59] Jon Reiner: So he must not have been there. And instead, what I’m not recognizing is, God I take away God’s ability to be a comforter in sadness because I didn’t want to go through the sad thing in the first place, right? I take away God’s ability to be mourning with me because he didn’t heal it in the first place.
[00:35:19] Jon Reiner: And so I try to encourage people, this is what I love in the ministry world, is that I try to encourage people that life is beautiful. Moments matter. And when I sink into all moments of life, bad, playing with my girls, I’m a girl dad. And when it’s difficult, and there’s a disease or diagnosis or a frustration, a relationship or a financial situation, and I sink into that moment, I can still find God there.
[00:35:42] Jon Reiner: And that there’s hope in that. That’s what I love doing in the ministry side. That’s beautiful. In my speaker side, it’s, I love seeing people find their voice and use it confidently. And we don’t have time for the stories of just being able to find people. And I sit down with them, and you see them go from Flushed out, red, hyperventilating, to standing in front of a group of people an hour later and giving their presentation and they start crying and looking at me and just saying, thank you.
[00:36:10] Jon Reiner: I did it. For helping me find my voice. Yeah, that’s amazing. And seeing now there’s new opportunities for you. There’s new opportunities for your company. You were able to get over that hurdle, find your voice, and speak it with confidence.
[00:36:21] Vicki Markussen: What a gift to give in both realms.
[00:36:23] Vicki Markussen: Thanks. Yeah. Thank you. You have been listening to John Reiner. This is BizCast, Greater La Crosse. We will catch you next week.
